Across Greece: Streetfighting Youth Confront Police Murder
Posted by Mike E on December 7, 2008
Thanks to Daniela for suggesting these two pieces.
Euronews December 7, 2008
Part of central Athens has been transformed into a battlefield, as protests over the police shooting of a teenage boy continued into a second day.
More firebombs have been thrown, shop windows smashed and vehicles burned in the capital and in Greece’s second city of Thessaloniki.
Faced with a hail of missiles, security forces responded with tear gas. A number of officers have been injured. Several arrests were made.
The shooting of a 15-year-old boy in Athens sparked the unrest that started last night. A police statement said an officer fired after a patrol car was attacked by a group of youths.
Sunday’s protest in Athens started peacefully before some broke away from the demonstration to go on the rampage.
The disturbances have hit towns and cities across Greece. Even the holiday islands of Crete and Corfu were affected.
The wave of destruction has devastated Greek commercial districts ahead of Christmas sales. Anger among youths has been fanned by the growing gap between the rich and poor in recent years.
With feelings at boiling point over the teenager’s death, two police officers have been arrested. One of them is reportedly facing a charge of manslaughter.
* * * * * * *
Riots in Greece After Police Kill a Youth
ATHENS (AP) — Hundreds of rioters fought pitched battles with the police in Athens and Thessaloniki on Saturday night after an officer shot and killed a 16-year-old boy in Athens.
Witnesses said the shooting occurred around 9 p.m. when a small group of youths attacked a police patrol car. An officer fired three shots, hitting the 16-year-old in the chest.
The police issued a statement saying the patrol car, with two officers inside, had been attacked by a group of 30 youths, many of them throwing stones, while the officers were patrolling the central district of Exarchia. According to the statement, the two officers left their car to confront the rioters, which led to the shooting.
Two television stations said the young man had died at the hospital. The two officers and the precinct commander have been suspended, the police statement said.
“The government expresses its profound regret over this incident. An inquiry on the circumstances of the death has already begun,” Interior Minister Prokopis Pavlopoulos said in a statement.
The news enraged hundreds of youths in the area, who began rioting, attacking other police cars with stones and firebombs. Police officers fired tear gas and closed several streets.
In Thessaloniki, dozens of youths attacked a police precinct in the city center and several others have blockaded a road.
At least one teenager was arrested, but no major injuries were reported.
Kasama 
Chuck Morse said
These rioters are apparently anarchists. I say “apparently” because I don’t have any firsthand knowledge of the situation or practical relationships with Greek anarchists, but the movement is quite aggressive there.
Mike E said
So why, chuck, do you assume that the rebels don’t include the various communist movements and broader working class youth?
Chuck Morse said
The media reports that I’ve read describe these youths as anarchists (period). I suspect that they are working class. I have never seen any indication that Marxists-Leninists are playing a role.
Alex said
The media always described everyone fighting the police in a political context as ‘anarchists’, especially when talking about the movements in the south of Europe – even though parts of those might identify more with, for instance, the autonomist tradition. Probably many of the rioters in Greece are anarchist – anarchism is quite lively there and gained a name for fysically opposing the polcice etc. However, other left currents have also called for protests and from messages from Greece I’ve understood that people from other left currents also take part in the protests. The political affinity of the kid who was called is also unclear.
keeper said
I realize that this is an entirelysubjective account, but either way… This summer me and a friend spent some time abroad in Greece among other places. In Athens as well as a few other Greek cities the walls were littered with communist propaganda. It ranged from graffiti, to banners advertising marches. Most were associated with the KKE (Communist Party of Greece) who are in fact Marxist Leninist. They do have some elected members of parliament and seemed to have a fairly strong presence in downtown Athens and other areas.
If they were not involved in someway to the upheaval, I would be surprised.
nando said
At the risk of stating the obvious:
I think we should confine our reporting to facts (and report when we have some).
Tell No Lies said
Chuck is the only person here working from reported facts. It is possible of course that the media is simply calling all of the fighters “anarchists” even though some aren’t, but no one here has offered any direct evidence to support this. To assume that the media reports are wrong and that this revolt involves communists is to treat wishes as facts. Greece has a long tradition of anarchist rioting of this sort. I hope Chuck is wrong and that this revolt involves communists as well, but my hopes don’t make it so. Until we have evidence to the contrary we should assume this is the work of anarchists and applaud them accordingly.
Zack said
Red flag?
Tell No Lies said
Look closer. I actually think thats an anarchist Red and Black flag (though the black part seems faded).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Anarchist_flags_and_stars.svg
Jaroslav said
TNL & Chuck:
The mainstream media is not the most reliable ‘FACT’ source.
Obviously there are anarchists involved, & they should be applauded. But as to who else is or is not involved, speculation is pointless.
As for ‘long traditions’, please. This is the American definition of ‘long tradition’, I take it, where anything longer than a couple years qualifies. Greece also has traditions of communist struggle, including a revolution crushed by the English & US imperialists. I am of course not denigrating the inspiring actions of Greek anarchists in recent years, rather I join in celebrating them.
On a bigger-picture level also, the important thing is not whether Team Red or Team Black is racking up more points in the Militant Action Tournament. The thing to take note of is that section(s) of Greek society was moved to open revolt; the political outlook of the participants was surely a factor, but in a spontaneous response such as this it cannot be considered the primary factor anyway. If you want to compare anarchism & communism, please do so on the basis of which one provides better theory & practise for changing the world, & not on bragging rights.
This, like other mass uprisings, is best understood — & thus also best built upon — by examining what’s going on in society overall. This social picture includes political movements, but it’s not limited to that. This was not the planned action of some group. This was a chain reaction of events taking place in a certain social context. In the following days/weeks/etc this may turn into something lead by particular political forces, but the outbreak itself is simply the masses responding immediately to a particularly sudden & cruel incidence of the oppression they get every day.
Tell No Lies said
Of course the capitalist media is not the most reliable source of information. But so far, on this blog at least, it is the ONLY source of information of any kind about the current events in Greece. I’m not interested in a Black vs. Red pissing contest (and in any case would be rooting for the Reds), and I think its entirely plausible/probable that there are lots of communists in the streets of Greece right now fighting the cops. And I also think that the really important analysis needed here is of the larger social context. But to say that this is “simply the masses responding immediately to a particularly sudden & cruel incidence of the oppression” seems disingenuous to me. There are organized forces involved in these actions, and for the moment the only information we have suggests that they are anarchists. Chuck said as much and was wrongly chided for it and thats the only reason I jumped in. If it turns out that these initial reports are correct this fact should matter to us. Thats all.
entdinglichung said
militant self-defense against the police and fascists is practised by a lot of leftist groups & organizations in Greece (e.g. the NAR which came out of a leftward split of the KKE’s youth around 1990, trotskyists like the OKDE, but also sometimes among more mainstream trade unions, e.g. there were clashes with the police and riots during strikes of bus drivers and construction workers in Athens in the 1990ies, where the NAR had some influence), among those labelled “anarchist” by the media are adherents of different anarchist traditions but also groups which can probably better be labelled as “spontaneist marxist”, both are relatively influential among high school and university students which in Greece can largely be described as an academic proletariat … unfortunately, the both the KKE and a few anarchist groups sometimes also use violence against other leftists
entdinglichung said
for those who can read Castellano: http://grecia-libertaria.blogspot.com/ … additionally, there is a good report on an Austrian revolutionary marxist webpage (in German, sorry): http://www.sozialismus.net//content/view/1014/1/
Ka Frank said
Here is a statement by one of the M-L groups in Greece. I have also seen a shorter statement by the CP of Greece (M-L).
The Communist Organization of Greece (KOE) informs the progressive public opinion:
1. Yesterday evening, Saturday 6 December, a member of the Police Special Forces shot in cold blood and killed a 15 year old boy in the center of Athens.
2. Dozens of eye witnesses who came forward and spoke to the Media confirm that this was a cold blood murder, as there were no incidents going on. The attempt of the Greek government to lie to the public opinion, claiming that the kids attacked the police, finally failed: Tonight, Sunday 7 December, even the mainstream Media are openly calling the government’s claims “a blatant lie”.
3. The police murder comes after years of increasing state terror against the youth and the working people, who goes always unpunished and is always covered and justified by the neoliberal government of K. Karamanlis. Dozens of demonstrators have been arrested, tortured and wounded by the police.
4. The Greek government tried to disorientate and calm the people by organizing a theater of “resignations” of the Interior Minister and the head of the Greek Police, who were right away “refused” by the Prime Minister.
5. Thus, the Greek government bears the full political responsibility for the murder of the 15 year old boy, which was anything but an exceptional incident. The Greek government armed the hand of the murderer. It is the Greek government who trains the policemen and teaches them: “You are the State and you are untouchable, you are over the laws”.
6. Since yesterday evening thousands of youth and working people are expressing all over Greece their indignation and their fully justified anger against this government of thiefs and murderers. Dozens of demonstrations are taking place almost continuously in Athens, Thessaloniki, Patras and many other Greek cities.
7. The Communist Organization of Greece (KOE), the Coalition of Radical Left (SYRIZA), all the left organizations (with the shameful exception of the Communist Party of Greece, which only issued a statement…) are taking part in this revolt under the slogan: “Down with this government of murderers and thiefs!”.
8. This morning, Sunday 7 December, the demonstration organized in Athens by the Left forces gathered thousands of people. It was attacked by the police with exceptional brutality, but the state terror did not manage to smash the march. Tomorrow afternoon we are organizing a new demonstration. The protest continues everywhere. Similar is the situation all over Greece.
9. The murderers and their instigators, the neoliberal government of K. Karamanlis, shall pay dearly for all their crimes! The state terror shall not pass! The people’s struggle shall be victorious!
Athens, 7 December 2008.
Gary Leupp said
The Communist Organization of Greece (KOE), for what it’s worth, is a member of the International Conference of Marxist-Leninist Parties and Organizations (ICMLPO) along with the Communist Party of the Philippines. It seems to draw on the thought of Marx, Lenin, Gramsci, Guevara, and Mao. Their English-language webpage is here:
http://international.koel.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=3
Chuck Morse said
For what it’s worth, news reports continue to label the instigators of these protests and riots as anarchists (specifically). Although I know little about Greek politics, this comes as no surprise to me: as TNL said, there’s a long tradition of riots of this sort in the country. Indeed, over the last several years, I’ve read near weekly accounts anarchist firebombings and conflicts with the police.
If experiences elsewhere in Europe are any guide, it seems likely that anarchists in Athens and other large cities have built a highly politicized and militant counter-culture, structured around squats, bookstores, and a culture of resistance. This was very common in Italy, Germany, and a few other places in the 1980s and 1990s and definitely breeds riots. Typically, in such a context, ML groups play a role on the fringes, but their impact is very minor due to their focus on party building and the weirdness typical of ML political culture (of the sort found abundantly in the RCP).
Jaroslav said
Chuck, your last comment is again very unhelpful.
Is the KOE just making a statement from the fringes, or are they more involved than that? I don’t know. But neither do you.
Your observations of Italy & Germany in the 80s & 90s are accurate to my knowledge. But you can’t just take that & automatically apply it to Greece today. If you find out what the situation in Greece today is, only after that can you start lumping it in with other similar situations (if it is similar). Socially & economically, I’ll point out, Greece is not even in the same category as imperialist, affluent Italy & Germany. What like they’re all EU members so they must have the same leftist political scenes?
Again, your guess off the top of your head may be 100% true. It’s not an improbable picture. But it’s not the only possibility, & the fact that you’re doing this with no factual basis other than the mainstream media using what is to them a curse word, only serves to put your reports on other situations in doubt also.
Chuck Morse said
Jaroslav, at least a dozen news sources have identified these rioters as anarchist (specifically). So, unless there is some giant conspiracy to conceal the immortal contributions of the The Communist Organization of Greece, I’m pretty comfortable concluding that these protesters are, in fact, anarchists. Maybe I’m wrong, but evidence suggest that I’m not.
My assumption that ML groups are marginal is by no means uninformed. None of the dozens of news reports that I’ve read have identified Marxist-Leninists as actors in the events and, with the exception of Turkey, MLs have been unable to build a mass base among youth since the 1970s. European radical youth movements have traced and do trace their roots overwhelmingly to anarchism.
I’m sorry if that’s unhelpful to you, but I’m not inventing these things.
Mike E said
I suspect that the main reason we are talking about these events is that they have drawn in a section of the youth beyond the previously-organized grouplets. Like the uprising in the French suburbs in previous years.
The new york times wrote today:
In other words, they emerged from the left and radical youth centers in Athens (communities). But what marked them was that these uprisings flowed outside the riverbanks of “riots as usual” in ways that totally surprised and overwhelmed the authorities.
* * * * * *
I don’t think the point is to squabble over “who gets credit” here. It had struck me (knowing what I do about the Greek political scene) as a bit narrow and mistaken to assume this was simply or mainly anarchist.
In his first comment Chuck wrote: “These rioters are apparently anarchists. I say ‘apparently’ because I don’t have any firsthand knowledge of the situation or practical relationships with Greek anarchists…”
In his more recent comment, Chuck has shifted his claim: “For what it’s worth, news reports continue to label the instigators of these protests and riots as anarchists (specifically).”
* * * * *
It is also worth taking not of Chuck’s correct emphasis on “for what it’s worth,” since the bourgeois press is often not worth very much in their assessment of the political complextion and complexity of such things.
Personal recollection: I visited Berlin’s Kreuzberg district (among the squats of the autonomen during Hot Autumn 1983 when there were waves of streetfighting — that would take years to die down )And I got a vivid sense of the “for what its worth point” in regard to the bourgeois press. In that case there were several political movements involved — the radical squatters (and their “subcommunity”) who were often various kinds of autonomen (with some other more communist political forces in the mix) — and then also an explicitly a communist-Maoist movement with real roots among the immigrant Turkish and Kurdish youth and workers.
Not surprisingly, the mainstream press generally smeared the movement with one brush “Anarcho-Kaoten” (i.e. forces dedicated to chaos and destruction, without any coherent political agenda.)
In our discussion of Greece: I’m much more interested in actually knowing (and not just from these initial bourgeois news reports) — what the deal really is. And to learn something about how broader sections of youth were drawn into actions like these, and what the general political climate is.
Chuck Morse said
Mike, I have not shifted my claims: I made it clear in both of my comments that the mainstream media is my primary source of information. I suspect that you’re trying to impugn my credibility by implying shiftiness on my part, which is a little messed up. You should know better than that.
Your message is also contradictory: for you, the mainstream media must be lying when it says that these protests are anarchist-led, but it is a legitimate source of information when it suggests that the riots exceeded previously existing boundaries. In other words, you find the mainstream media credible when it confirms your fantasies and not credible when it doesn’t.
Mike E said
Brother Chuck! No attempt to “impugn your credibility”! Your credibility is safe here with us.
I was just urging less speculation and more sharing of actual details. And I was endorsing the general skepticism about “initial reports” (a skepticism you expressed too).
An important part of preparation for revolution is preparing people to have a deep and critical skepticism of the “reports” (and analyses and hysterias) of the main media (especially around crises and uprisings).
As for your posts: If anything, i was tweaking you a bit (gently, so gently) for your rush to take “anarcho-credit” for an uprising that seems a bit broader than the usual. There was a bit of conflating between the well-known and considerable anarchist scene in greece — with with this rebellion (in ways that might ultimately prove to overlook the actual details).
sorry if anything seemed harsh or unfair!
Chuck Morse said
That’s cool, Mike, no problem.
For my sake, as much as I like the idea of a combative response to a police murder, I don’t know enough about this particular situation to judge whether or not these riots are good, bad, or something in between. I would need to know more before doing any celebrating or congratulating any particular tradition.
And, although I don’t know if this parallels the Greek situation, I do know that the radical countercultures that existed in places like Germany and Italy in the 1980s and 1990 were overwhelmingly identified with anarchism. That is a fact, even though there were other tendencies too.
But that’s only part of the picture: indeed, they operated according to profoundly different principles than the anarchist movements of yesteryear and you need conceptual tools drawn from beyond the anarchist tradition to understand what they did and why.
And that’s what matters to me: understanding how people become radicalized and why they articulate their radicalism in specific ways. These movements in Greece are apparently anarchist, which is relevant, but that’s only one fact to take into consideration, one element of what should be a larger analysis of the movements.
In my case, although I identify with anarchism, I am very skeptical about the contemporary relevance of categories and labels drawn from the 19th century. What matters most to me is the rethinking, which is why I keep visiting this site, even though most of you places yourselves elsewhere on the political spectrum.
Mike E said
Chuck writes:
This is (needless to say) important and welcome. And it speaks to the need for some patience — as we work out common language and sort out “remnants” of different modes.
On a brief factual note:
You write:
I have a different impression from the time I spent in Germany. And (to be clear) the following is not really a comment on you, or your comment — but on the prejudices i encountered among the German left.
The scene in Berlin or Koln (for example) was “overwhelmingly identified with anarchism” — but only if you overlooked (or marginalized) the quite large and radical movement that was rooted in the immigrants. I.e. If someone limited their analysis to the “radical counterculture” among GERMAN youth, then yes, THAT scene was “overwhelmingly identified with anarchism.” Or to put it more crudely, if we only considered the anarchist scene to be “the scene” — then yes, by circular reasoning, the scene was overwhelmingly anarchist.
And when I was in Germany (during the 1980s) it was rather widespread that even radical Germans were focused only on the politics among the Germans — and thought of “the Turks” did not even count. I.e. far too many had internalized the general social discourse that treated “the turks” as “auslander” — foreigners, visitors, temporary, and somewhat alien. (There were exceptions, and a number of young activists and radical lawyers and internationalists had alligned themselves with “the turks” but that is a separate story.)
I experienced some rather startling moments around what can only be called national chauvinism around the left. In Heidelberg I had a long convesation with a militant of the nominally Maoist MLPD, where he lamented how the “unity of the workers” in his workplace had declined since immigrants had arrived in large numbers “with their customs and prayer rugs.” (I thought: Save us from his notion of unity, and give us a different, internationalist notion of unity!) When I challenged him on this he said “You’ve got to understand, Germany is not like the U.S., it just isn’t a country of immigrants.” To which I could only reply: “Uh, dude, it is now.”
In one raucous political debate in Cologne (when there was sharp struggle over demands to raise in the protests against Reagan’s provocative introduction of first-strike missiles onto German soil), one German activist finally shouted, “You damn Maoists, showing up with your truckloads of Turkish workers!” — i.e. as if it was somehow illegitimate for real workers, with real political consciousness “showing up” at a mass meeting discussing their opinions on the political plans.
Sometimes people would say to us (the Maoists from the U.S.) that: “There is no Maoist party in Germany” — even though there were often Maoist marches of hundreds of revolutoinary workers led by the TKPML and their ATIF mass movement in major cities. These workers may have been “in Germany” but they were apparently not “really” German enough to count.
In Berlin, in the 1980s, the ACTUAL scene (seen more broadly) was that there was a powerful left community (and real living subculture centered around the squats — occupied apartment blocks pressed up against The Wall) that had many “autonomen.” Even there it was more complex — in some squats you had a green/yuppie scene, and an autonomen-political group, and sometimes a heroin shooting gallery — sometimes segregated onto different floors in the same building! (Autonomen was a particular current of anarchism of a militant political kind).
But there was also (and in Berlin, sometimes in nearby neighborhoods) a great many radicalized immigrant youth (largely Turkish and Kurdish) and also some older workers — who were inclined toward various communist trends (largely Maoism or Guevarism, or Kurdish nationalism). There were attempts (and some successes) in the work of linking the two — despite the real divides of class, politics and nationality.
Tell No Lies said
Mike’s observations are important for us. As I understand it the Republic Windows workers are mainly Latino. I don’t know if that means immigrants or Chicanos or what. In any event it is suggestive of the often advanced role that immigrant and/or oppressed nationality workers have historically played and are likely to play in any coming upsurge. And precisely because they play that role we should expect efforts to isolate them and to suggest that their actions aren’t really reflective of the mood of “American” workers. This can take a variety of forms, including ostensibly “anti-authoritarian” ones when immigrants coming from countries with stronger socialist and communists traditions act accordingly and rub some in the largely white anarchist scene the wrong way. Its important for us to recognize that it is precisely because they are carriers of such tradition that immigrants are more likely to break the mold of respectable forms of struggle that the native-born have so deeply internalized.
Mike E said
TNL:
Some of us used to joke (very quietly and to ourselves) that it looked like Germany needed “the dictatorship of the Turkish proletariat.”
But joking aside, it highlights the complex changes that mass third world immigration has brought to both Europe and the U.S. — and importance of being quite militant in our internationalism.
it is hard for workers (say, autoworkers) to promote “buy american” — and not also (by the same ideology) see immigrants mainly as “foreigners.” All this talk about “shipping our jobs overseas” is problematic (even if it arises from a real set of capitalist injustices and painful dislocations).
I am also convinced that we need to have a firm and fierce grip on the need for a multinational ethic, and a clear multinational (and multiracial) vibe — for the revolutionary movement in the U.S.
Revolution will not come from a loose coalition of identity-alliances, or from a vague “solidarity” extended from “one community to another” (that remains in its core trapped in blindered notions of “the other” and not the universal).
We need to create a new “we” — a sense of the people of the world, of a common, oppressed and enlightened mass of humanity, and a revolution that distains to be divided along all the fracture lines of culture and nationality — and that cements its emerging unity through the most fierce and common dedication to the ending of all the oppression of one nation (or race) by another.
(In the sixties it used to be said “Liberation will come from a Black thang.” but in fact then (and even more now) liberation will come from an inspiringly multinational and international thang.
freetown said
I find it interesting how the events precipitating the rebellion are very similar with those events in West Bengal where peasants recently rose up, at least inasmuch as outrageous police attacks were met with massive resistance within hours of the incident. I hope that the Greek rebellion can create some kind of organizational coherence (even if it is non-hierarchical like that in the West Bengal rebellion) so that they can push even further.
entdinglichung said
the manifesto of the groups which occupied the Polytechnic in Athens, source: http://libcom.org/news/athens-polytechnic-occupation-publishes-communique-09122008
“On Saturday December 6, 2008, Alexandros Grigoropoulos, a 15-year old comrade, was murdered in cold blood, with a bullet in the chest by a cop in the area of Exarchia.
“Contrary to the statements of politicians and journalists who are accomplices to the murder, this was not an “isolated incident”, but an explosion of the state repression which systematically and in an organised manner targets those who resist, those who revolt, the anarchists and anti-authoritarians.
“It is the peak of state terrorism which is expressed with the upgrading of the role of repressive mechanisms, their continuous armament, the increasing levels of violence they use, with the doctrine of “zero tolerance”, with the slandering media propaganda that criminalises those who are fighting against authority.
“It is these conditions that prepare the ground for the intensification of repression, attempting to extract social consent beforehand, and arming the weapons of state murderers in uniform!
“Lethal violence against the people in the social and class struggle is aiming at everybody’s submission, serving as exemplary punishment, meant to spread fear.
“It is part of the wider attack of the state and the bosses against the entire society, in order to impose more rigid conditions of exploitation and oppression, to consolidate control and repression. From school and universities to the dungeons of waged slavery with the hundreds of dead workers in the so-called “working accidents” and the poverty embracing large numbers of the population… From the minefields in the borders, the pogroms and the murders of immigrants and refugees to the numerous “suicides” in prisons and police stations… from the “accindental shootings” in police blockades to violent repression of local resistances, Democracy is showing its teeth!
“From the first moment after the murder of Alexandros, spontaneous demonstrations and riots burst in the center of Athens, the Polytechnic, the Economic and the Law Schools are being occupied and attacks against state and capitalist targets take place in many different neighborhoods and in the city centre. Demonstrations, attacks and clashes erupt in Thessaloniki, Patras, Volos, Chania and Heraklion in Crete, in Giannena, Komotini and many more cities. In Athens, in Patission street –outside the Polytechnic and the Economic School- clashes last all night. Outside the Polytechnic the riot police make use of plastic bullets.
“On Sunday the 7th December, thousands of people demonstrate towards the police headquarters in Athens, attacking the riot police. Clashes of unprecedented tension spread in the streets of the city centre, lasting until late at night. Many demonstrators are injured and a number of them are arrested.
“We continue the occupation of the Polytechnic School which started on Saturday night, creating a space for all people who fighting to gather, and one more permanent focus of resistance in the city.
“In the barricades, the university occupations, the demonstrations and the assemblies we keep alive the memory of Alexandros, but also the memory of Michalis Kaltezas and of all the comrades who were murdered by the state, strengthening the struggle for a world without masters and slaves, without police, armies, prisons and borders.
“The bullets of the murderers in uniform, the arrests and beatings of demonstrators, the chemical gas war launched by the police forces, not only cannot manage to impose fear and silence, but they become for the people the reason to raise against state terrorism the cries of the struggle for freedom, to abandon fear and to meet –more and more every day- in the streets of revolt. To let the rage overflow and drown them!
State terrorism shall not pass!
We demand the immediate release of all those arrested in the events of 7th-8th December.
We are sending our solidarity to everyone occupying universities, demonstrating and clashing with the state murderers all over the country.
– The Occupation of the Polytechnic University in Athens
Jaroslav said
Chuck, I agree 100% that there is NOT ‘some giant conspiracy to conceal the immortal contributions of the The Communist Organization of Greece’.
As for conscious forces, there is definitely some anarchists & definitely some communists. Is it weighted towards the anarchists? Probably, but again I don’t want to speculate like that. further, my main point is that in a mass uprising like this (or Paris a couple years back), it is mainly a manifestations of the people’s rage in general, in response to certain conditions &/or events — rather than a success of a particular group’s organising prowess. Once it gets going, for it to keep going & to be ‘successful’ in some way there needs to be some kind of leadership (which anarchists, amongst others, are quite capable of providing). As others pointed out already, a pre-existing general atmosphere of ‘revolution/resistance in the air’ in a society — which is mainly created by conscious/organised forces, including anarchists — makes it more likely for such uprisings to occur.
There is a spectrum of uprisings, if you will, with on the one side something completely spontaneous like the mainly Black uprisings against police brutality in the US in recent years (Cincinatti, LA, Benton Harbor, etc); & on the other side an organised & planned [attempt] at overthrowing capitalism entirely, such as Russia or Spain or China.
As for Greece today, here‘s what some anarchists have to say on the matter:
Thank you Mike for your observations on Germany. I’ve heard the same story from others — including by the way Germans & Turks not associated with RCPUSA or RIM (which I point out merely to emphasise that it’s not just a case of Mike hanging out in his own circle or whatever).
Chuck also said ‘In my case, although I identify with anarchism, I am very skeptical about the contemporary relevance of categories and labels drawn from the 19th century. What matters most to me is the rethinking, which is why I keep visiting this site, even though most of you places yourselves elsewhere on the political spectrum.’
Yes exactly. I mean on the one hand, sure, the 19th century arguments are about real issues & won’t just go away. But on the other hand, we have the same goal, after all! I respect anarchists way more than some ‘socialists’ who basically just want a welfare state. A world based on collectivity, no hierarchies, etc — if that’s not even the goal then what’s the point right? Shortly, I think a state is needed during transition phase society for purpose of having a secure way to embark on our experimental path to classless society. It is a safeguard so that if we mess up somewhere, or just aren’t strong enough, we have this defense mechanism against internal & external capitalists. That said, it doesn’t need to be a super-powerful state either. The state won’t wither away, we must destroy it piece by piece (I suspect there is the difference: piece by piece vs all at once). I think there will always be a need — & a benefit! — to leadership (I don’t mean individual leadership) & organisation. Of course a state comes with great risk & danger too. Then again no state (right away) comes with an even bigger amount of risk & danger. Anarchism & Maoism as generally conceived are like salt, sodium chloride. If a person eats either sodium or chlorine by itself, it’s poisonous; but bind the two into a molecule & it’s a tasty seasoning.
Rethinking is certainly what’s needed. Neither anarchists nor communists have gotten very far, if worldwide classless society is your measuring stick.
anarchist said
The 2nd last post of Jaraslav contains a lot of unquestioned instrumentalist mentality. What on earth does an “experimental road to a classless society” mean. Either there is an active imagination that brings this forth as has nearly happened on objective levels or there isn’t. If you look at all the failures of insurrections and revolutions in the past century or so it all comes down to that. Its individual and social. There is really no such thing as messing up at least as he sees it. I could see some scenarios where class society could reassert itself(the reintroduction of mass impersonal division of labor for eg) but that is not something that a state could solve far from it.
And beyond all that there are discussions to be had on what such a framework would look like. The question of small scale vs large scale for example is a discussion that has only recently begun and is not close to being solved. I happen to think that any centralized processes that humans do(and I’m not against them as such) should be predicated on a small-scale craft-based dispersal driven set of arrangements. This inevitably gets into those annoying questions on organization.
There’s a reason why a hefty amount of Greek anarchists(who have a lot of post/ultra leftist positions) are so opposed to the left wing down there you know.