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Beneath Transformers 2’s All-American Surface

Posted by Mike E on July 2, 2009

transformers2This review first appeared on Comrade Alastair, a revolutionary blog from New Zealand.

By Alastair Reith

The latest Transformers film will delight plenty of people. It is filled with explosions, some new characters, bucketloads of special effects and the puerile one liners and adolescent humour one expects from an action film of its nature. It’s also one of the most reactionary films I’ve seen in a very long time. While many will scoff at the idea of a political analysis of Transformers (“it’s just a movie! It’s not meant to be taken seriously!”), the sewage bubbling below its clean cut, all American surface needs to be exposed.

The film opens with scenes of people running in panic past military cordons at the scene of an apparent chemical spill at an industrial complex in China. This quickly turns out to be the site where a Decepticon (the evil baddie robots) has landed. Soon after this we are treated to the arrival of the knights in shining armour, the US military. We see a scene with officers discussing China’s closure of its airspace, and their decision to ignore this and send in Black Ops helicopters with a team of elite troops and Autobots (the nice goodie robots) to deal with the situation. This sets the tone for the rest of the movie. The US military scampers merrily around the world, invading China, demanding access to the airspace of its Egyptian and Jordanian client states, and generally acting as a planetary police force. This isn’t anything unusual, of course, with most Hollywood films treating the United States exactly this way – a good example is Spy Game, in which Robert Redford (retiring CIA officer) organises the disabling of a Chinese power plant and a bloody assault on a Chinese prison by US Navy Seals in order to rescue Brad Pitt (CIA spy captured trying to infiltrate the prison). In the eyes of Hollywood, US imperialism’s armed thugs can do no wrong and the world is their playground, and it is this wall-to-wall view that reaches the eyes of cinema-goers around the world.

This view is not stated explicitly by any means. At no point in Transformers II do any of the characters openly express their blind adulation for the US empire, and this is extremely rare in any film. It is nonetheless there, and it is expressed through the exclusion of any uncomfortable facts that contradict the film’s image of US imperialism as some kind of noble guardian of all that is good in the world. Perhaps the best example of this is the fact that the Autobots and their human handlers are stationed at a US base on a small island in the Indian Ocean called Diego Garcia. This is mentioned only once in the film, for a few fleeting seconds while the letters flicker across the screen to inform us where the camera has made its latest jump to.

Diego Garcia

Diego Garcia atoll from the air

Diego Garcia atoll from the air

Diego Garcia is part of the Chagos Islands archipelago and came into British possession following the Napoleonic Wars of the early 1800s. When the British colony of Mauritius gained its independence in 1968, Diego Garcia was under its sovereignty. The island was inhabited by about 2,000 people, who lived mostly at a subsistence level without electricity, telephone connection, any postal service, and very little contact with the British Government that technically held power there.

The famous journalist John Pilger wrote of Diego Garcia, saying “there are times when one tragedy, one crime tells us how a whole system works behind its democratic facade and helps us to understand how much of the world is run for the benefit of the powerful and how governments lie.”

Prior to the independence of Mauritius in 1968, the US and British governments had been talking for some years. The Americans wanted an island to be leased to them for the purpose of building a naval base. At first the US was after Aldabra Atoll, which was uninhabited by humans. However, it was found to be home to the rare Aldabra tortoise, about 10,000 of them. Since it was clearly unacceptable to endanger tortoises, the US Government instead requested Diego Garcia, which only had about 2,000 human beings on it! The island was also horseshoe shaped, which meant it formed a natural harbour and could easily hold a fleet of US warships.

In 1965 at a conference in London, the British pressured Seewoosagur Ramgoolam, post-independence Prime Minister of Mauritius, into selling them the island for just three million pounds, a bargain price.

The British then proceeded to expel against their will the inhabitants of Diego Garcia between 1968 and 1971. On 15 October 1971, the few remaining Chagossians held a last Mass in the island’s one church. Colonial Office head Denis Greenhill (later Lord Greenhill of Harrow) wrote to the British Delegation at the UN; “The object of the exercise is to get some rocks which will remain ours; there will be no indigenous population except seagulls who have not yet got a committee. Unfortunately, along with the seagulls go some few Tarzans and Man Fridays that are hopefully being wished on Mauritius.”

Diego Garcia's location in the Indian Ocean (click for full)

Diego Garcia's location in the Indian Ocean (click for full)

The people of Diego Garcia lost their homes and their livelihoods. They went through emotional anguish and physical hardship, and while technically British citizens they have not received any of the benefits that supposedly flow from being part of that ‘democratic’ nation. The islanders were not provided with compensation, did not have any arrangements made for their survival upon being shipped out of their homes and dumped in Mauritius. Many turned to crime and prostitution to survive, and many committed suicide.

Chagos Islanders protest the theft of their homes by the UK and US governments… With the tacit approval of the Autobots it would appear

Diego Garcia is now used as a base for US and NATO troops in the ongoing occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq, and specifically for launching long-range bombing missions. For all the Transformer’s refusal to share their military technology with the US military (with Optimus Prime saying he has seen humanity’s capacity for destruction, and feels it would do ‘more harm than good’), they seem to feel no concern over the fact that in between flying out teams to battle evil robots, the base they’re hanging about in is launching airstrikes that blow Afghani children to bits.

This is the island on which the Transformers, noble guardians of all that is good in the universe and allies of the US military, supposedly guardians of the same here on Earth, base their operations. The film has the audacity to showcase Diego Garcia as the home of freedom’s soldiers, at the same time as its true and rightful inhabitants rot abroad.

Soldier knows best

The film’s worship of the military is almost beyond belief. It strongly infers that the military should be as free from civilian control as possible, and that any attempts to impose control on it and enforce transparency over its operations are dangerous. A nerdy, bespectacled bureaucrat from Washington is presented as a troublesome pest who dares to questions the activities of those who should be above questioning. An officer states that he considers his General’s actions past and present to be ‘above reproach’. Considering he was saying this from the Diego Garcia base that launches airstrikes on weddings and villages full of civilians in Afghanistan, killing children in fire, shrapnel and rubble, the film’s idea of what merits ‘reproach’ is somewhat unclear.

Afghani child wounded by U.S. airstrike -- many of which come from Diego Garcia

Afghani child wounded by U.S. airstrike -- many of which come from Diego Garcia

Afghani child seriously wounded in US airstrike, many of which are launched from Diego Garcia

Indeed the film’s definition of good and bad, right and wrong seems to be based around two things. First of all aesthetics, with the Autobots being mostly Yellow, Blue, Red and so on and the Decepticons being mostly black or silver, and generally more spiky and vicious looking than the goodies. And second of all, anyone who opposes the United States is bad, because the United States is good and that’s that.

The Transformers themselves seem to have a more sophisticated moral code, with the main beef between Autobots and Decepticons being over the Decepticons disregard for life and the Autobots respect for it. The rather flat plot informs us that aeons ago the original Decepticon leader and his followers came to Earth to build a machine that would destroy the sun and use the energy from this to create some kind of other energy that is the life force of Transformers. This was only supposed to be done to suns that were not close to any form of life, and these evil fellows decided to do it here instead for no apparent reason. Thus began the civil war…

The question then has to be asked, if the Autobots put such a high value on life that they would wage unrelenting war on their own kind in order to preserve it, why have they aligned themselves with the US military? I can’t think of anything in the world today further removed from the goal of preserving life! For all their talk of “humanity”, “mankind” and the “human race”, they have not aligned themselves with humanity as a whole and dedicated themselves to defending it in its entirety, but have instead chosen to march under the bloodstained banner of America.

This further illustrates the films main theme, Glory To America, for if these metal gods from outer space, arriving on Earth as the ‘goodies’ in the black and white, good versus evil struggle between Autobot and Decepticon, have chosen to align themselves with the US and become largely integrated into its armed forces, how can the US be anything but good? The question is never openly posed, but by not even considering the need to ask it the film makes its views on the matter clear.

On a side note, director Michael Bay obviously has some kind of gun fetish, as this film is in many parts just a big wankfest over military hardware. The camera lingers lovingly on tanks silhouetted against the sunset and rolling onto a beach, sweeps majestically over enormous aircraft carries slicing through the waves and fighter jets screaming through the sky. At some points there is virtually nothing to the film except for gunfire and explosions. In all likelihood Bay’s worship of US imperialism and it’s boys in uniform flows from his simple love of killing machines, as opposed to any kind of rational support for the military as an institution.

Little Black Sambots

Skids and Mudflap

Skids and Mudflap

It just keeps getting better. The film contains racist undertones as well, with a good analysis of this being written by Devim Faraci;

“These new robots, who begin the film conjoined as a shitty old ice cream truck but who soon get upgraded into Chevy concept cars, seem to be the most extreme racial caricatures seen in a movie in decades.

“The Twins have a simian appearance, with wide faces and huge ears. One of them (full disclosure: I am not sure which is which, namewise. This isn’t a problem limited to just these robots in Transformers 2 as I couldn’t tell most robots apart, except for Optimus Prime and Bumblebee) has a gold bucktooth. They have a ‘playful’ back and forth relationship, which includes them talking in some sort of modern day rap-age jive, calling each other ‘bitch-ass’ or ‘punk,’ talking with an exaggerated, crunked-up ’street’ accent. They appear to be stoned all the time. And they can’t read; when asked to translate some ancient Cybertronian language they sheepishly admit they ‘don’t do much readin’.’

“To be fair, only Primes can read this language, but even the completely idiotic mini-bot (and Italian stereotype) Wheelie can at least recognize what the writing is. The Twins are completely illiterate, it seems. I was actually surprised that the film didn’t find a way to make them wear a Transformers version of baggy pants.”

Foreigners (i.e. non-Americans) are treated as comical, insignificant pieces of scenery. At the beginning of the film some cheap laughs are grabbed with a camera shot of a Chinese man looking with a drop jawed, idiotic expression as Optimus Prime and some evil robot crash through his house. The previously mentioned nerdy meddling bureaucrat, after being forced to parachute out of a plane into the desert, is shown yelling at some Arabs in English that he is America, asking them to tell him where he is, and abusing them and yelling louder when they don’t understand. These two scenes however seem like the height of classy humour compared to the scene with the midget Egyptian border guard, who waddles over to the hero’s car in hilarious fashion, shouting incomprehensibly in his high pitched midget voice. This sight gag had absolutely nothing to do with the plot, and following the midget guard letting the car and its occupants through after the driver yells cheerily that he comes from New York, no further reference is made to it. Despite the frequency with which the characters change location and the multiple countries the film takes place in there is not a single character that isn’t American.

And while the treatment of women is nowhere near so grotesquely overt, things are far from good there either. There are only three female characters to speak of in the film – the main character’s girlfriend, his mum and a girl at college. His girlfriend is shown looking terrified while he looks calm and rational, his mum is portrayed as a babbling hysterical idiot who reacts positively to being slapped on the arse and gets high off hash cookies she unwittingly buys from what she believes are “environmentalists” and runs around making a fool of herself, and the third female character is a nymphomaniac seductress who forcefully demands sex from the main character and turns out to be an evil Decepticon who took a detour through Terminator on the way to this film, and is trying to stick her extendable metal tounge down Shia Le Bouf’s throat. So a murderous sex object, a madwoman and a character who gains screen time only by virtue of going out with the main character… not the most inspiring line up of women.

Any film that bases its characters at a place like Diego Garcia deserves to be attacked for it, and as far as I’m aware nobody has done so yet. The two caricature black Autobots are some of the most disgustingly racist characters to grace our screens in a long time, and were extremely irritating to boot. The worshipful treatment of the military and the general contempt shown for anything outside of America also deserve to be ruthlessly exposed and condemned. Despite the fact I enjoyed some aspects of Transformers II (I’m usuqlly quite easily pleased when it comes to movies, and I went to this expecting what I got, a cheesy action blockbuster filled with special effects, stupid one liners and plenty of violence. There was even a nice wee romantic subplot, and I’m always a sucker for a love story), the things I describe above prevented me from finding any real pleasure in the film as a whole.

One day it’ll be possible to make a cheesy action movie that doesn’t uphold murderous imperialism and promote racist stereotypes. I look forward to seeing it.

21 Responses to “Beneath Transformers 2’s All-American Surface”

  1. OSP said

    Thanks for posting this, this is a very helpful review.

  2. Andrei Mazenov said

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/escape-to-the-movies/797-Transformers-Revenge

    My feelings toward the movie summed up in a single video… it’s mostly non-political criticism, but the little jabs they have at the little Black Sambots and his “ASSHOLE FETISH FOR ALL THINGS ARMY!!!!” parts are hilarious. Enjoy.

  3. Paul L said

    After watching the movie yesterday, I have to admit to being entranced by the visual efects, which were impressive. As far as political content goes, the true danger is not that the filmmakers tried to instill a right-wing ideology in the film. I think that would be beyond their capabilities. No, the problem here is that so much of these ideas (mysogony, patriotism, etc) are so ingrained in the culture that they weren’t even questioned by the director and company. Otherwise, there would have been a lot of flag-waiving, etc. This, unchallenged, is in the long-run more dangerours than a simple, ridiculous film such as RED DAWN was a couple of decades ago.

  4. Military Member said

    After reading your bit on the military operations in Diego Garcia, I have to be honest and call you out. I was stationed in Diego Garcia for a few months in 2005 and 2006. Diego Garcia was not even in the film, it was some other land mass that they claimed was diego garcia. The highest elevation is 4 feet off the ground in Diego Garcia, and the movie shows a land mass with a mountain in the background.

    The other thing I must say is that as a military member, Diego Garcias support facility is an absolute necessity for us on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Civilian casualties are an unfortunate necessary evil in war. The targets and missions of the bombers from there are WELL PLANNED and WELL THOUGHT OUT! I cannot begin to tell you the planning and preperation before doing just one bombing run. you make it sound like we’re just bombing random areas in Afghanistan without cause. Do you really think we target Afghany children? You have issues!

    Please do some research and please don’t be so hard on our military. Remember, thanks to our men and women serving our great country, you now have the freedom to smear them in your anti military/ anti war propaganda but not necessarily the right to do so. I hate war too, but the reality is it’s not the military men and womens faults. I also do notagree with civillian casualties, but sometimes it’s completely unavoidable. posting a picture of a sufforing afghany child really does not aid your argument, it only angers people into taking your side of the argument as truth. Our military members need all the support we can get, and to even think that someone back home would have the audasity to complain about our operations abroad without experiencing them frst hand is greek to me. How about a simple “Thank you for my freedom”. All I can say is… I know for a fact that you’ve never been to Diego Garcia, because if you actually had seen what goes on first hand like I have, you’d be singing a different tune.

    Stop your anti-military propiganda and blogging and go do something deserving with your life. Join the military and then you can talk trash about the military. I am utterly disgusted reading this. I just finished 7 months away from my family with boots on the ground in Iraq and I am finally on my way home. I am currently at Al Udeid AB, Qatar where the first transformers was filmed in transition from Iraq, headed to the US. I agree that things were out of place in the movies, but don’t use our men and women of the military as your anti-patriotic scapegoat.

    You’re welcome for your freedom, I’m glad I could do something for our country to provide you the ability to smite me and my brothers and sisters for our sacrifice. I challenge you to do what we do. I will leave you with this… I do not hate you or your type, I appreciate that people explore the freedoms we worked so hard to provide them with. All I ask is that you be open minded and not attack the ones who serve our great country. If you wish to attack a movie, attack the makers of the movie, not us. I have to go now, I have to catch a plane home to see my family that I have not seen in a long time.

    Enjoy your freedoms.

  5. Zack said

    Military Member, you don’t fight for freedom, you fight for empire.

  6. Andrei Mazenov said

    Military Member:

    My best friend is a sniper in Afghanistan, who is also waiting in desperation to get home to his family and friends who he loves and who he… thought he was fighting for.

    He’d very much beg to differ with what you have to say. However, I’ll let he himself speak on that as soon as he gets home. He has stories to tell and rage to vent that may strike a chord with you.

    I hope that all soldiers come home safe, but I can never support what they do.

  7. WP Admin said

    don’t use our men and women of the military as your anti-patriotic scapegoat.

    Guy who wrote this is a Kiwi, not an American. He’s certainly unpatriotic, but more about NZ than the US…

  8. Mike E said

    WP admin:

    “Guy who wrote this is a Kiwi, not an American. He’s certainly unpatriotic, but more about NZ than the US…

    I would be interested to hear you elaborate on what you are saying?

    Are you suggesting that the military soldiers of New Zealand are not (in fact) “patriotic”?

    Aren’t they in fact quite patriotic defenders of this New Zealand government, state, flag, and the interests of its ruling class?

    And isn’t it the communist revolutionaries (in a country like this) who say “we have no fatherland” in the sense that we reject the patriotism of these imperialists (large like the U.S.’s emperors, or small like New Zealand’s junior partners of the empire)? And in the sense that we argue that the oppressed within New Zealand should see themselves as internationalists (and one with the oppressed people of the world)?

  9. Militant said

    Now wait a sec. in many countries of this glob military draft is what it is. including the Zionist state of Israel, ones who do the dirty work our guest, military member are mercenaries.

    What about your country of freedom? Sure. Humans are humans and veteran hospitals must treat them better, more humane and don’t make so many of them shoot themselves one way or another. Jackey your cool homeboy, Sgt. Jacob Blaylock’s gone for liberty the Amerikan way? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/us/02suicide.html?_r=1

    Sergeant Blaylock went back to Houston, where he tried to pick up the pieces of his life and shape them into a whole. But grief and guilt trailed him, combining with other stresses: financial troubles, disputes with his estranged wife over their young daughter, the absence of the tight group of friends who had helped him make it through 12 months of war.

    Vow. all sort of Americans are full of that grief and guilt that trailed this other human being whose depression from this bloody system acted like a fuse popping out. About the estranged wife though, she is one of the many of this young liberty loving country that fails to have a bit of stability in family lives and since they’re free they don’t have to bonds of woman as a slave in feudal and religious reactionary lives. But how many of your militaries are unlucky peoples of color who couldn’t make it in college?

    you’re saying: The other thing I must say is that as a military member, Diego Garcias support facility is an absolute necessity for us on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Civilian casualties are an unfortunate necessary evil in war. The targets and missions of the bombers from there are WELL PLANNED and WELL THOUGHT OUT! I cannot begin to tell you the planning and preparation before doing just one bombing run. you make it sound like we’re just bombing random areas in Afghanistan without cause. Do you really think we target Afghany children? You have issues!
    ****************

    what the hell are you doing in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place? Didn’t Frankestin make something worse than himself who did him in? You have issues! Yes. imperialism is an issue larger than life billions of people have to deal with. Cheap labor, free economical zone, giving others worthless papers instead of money called bonds and all that shit is plunderous, your predatorial nature. Go and defend a freedom that doesn’t cause pain around the world and within your own society rather than rambling in defence of this imperialist army.

    are we even now on this argument?

    Talking about liberty and covering your planderous

    People of all sorts go to this buiz since economy did not let them make it in life. And you’ve learnt lots of stuff. Now get out of it and form a people’s army if you cannot beat obvious facts.

  10. Mike – I was a bit confused about what WP Admin was saying too, but now I get what he was saying. He is saying the writer *of the article*, my good comrade Alastair, is from New Zealand, so he isn’t being “unpatriotic” to the US in this article because he doesn’t live in the US.

    He could have worded it better.

  11. Mike E said

    ah.

  12. irisbright said

    Lmao [insert record stopping noise here]!

    Good show, Alastair.

  13. ineedfiles said

    did you notice the decepticon tossing the american flag away, like it was a used tissue?
    right after the fallen comes to earth. THAT is symbolic. i have NEVER seen anybody in a movie toss another countries flag away like that. maybe it’s true: america is doomed.
    at the begining of the new superman/batman cartoon they were warning the children of tent cities, economic failure, ect..

  14. Mark said

    Unbelieveable that this person would invest time to create an anti-US political rant over a Hasbro toy sponsored film. With that target in mind it’s not surprising that the writer missed the point that the US was once again bearing virtually the entire cost of international defense in both people and material. Undoubtedly has this been documentary instead of fantasy, the US would have also been obligated to rebuild the desert as well.

    The writer also chose to ignore the British presence in the multi-national force, and completely ignored the obvious animal abuse when ‘wheelie’ (the little dog) had an eye burned out with a torch, and the cat analog (a decepticon) is decapitated and eviscerated.

    What a waste of internet.

  15. It was filmed in my town.
    The first scene is at Bethlehem Steel.
    Well the ruins of Bethlehem Steel i should say.

  16. Casey said

    All-

    Everyone goes through different phases in their lives. As someone gets older they read a different book, watch a different documentary, listen to a different radio personality that provokes thought, opinions arise, opinions are expressed that you will only berate yourself for later. Blogs are a safe place to voice those opinions as they develop. Everyone’s opinions on this blog will change after they read another book/see another movie. That being said, there are a few core arguments here that have been debated for centuries. Such as: is a military member doing wrong or just following orders? There are repercussions for not following orders in the military. Is breaking the law ethical? What if it is for a moral cause? Weren’t the laws made to save lives and keep people safe? How could breaking them be serving the greater good if it was indeed the greater good that made the laws (of any country, UN, or military)?

    Let’s level with each other: The reasons why we entered the Middle East haven’t really been clearly stated. Let me clear a few things up: Iraq and Afghanistan rank pretty high on UNICEF’s list of oppressive and abusive dictatorships. While Hussein may have kept certain factions from killing each other, he wasn’t by any stretch of the imagination a nice guy. Who are we to play world police? Maybe it isn’t our place, maybe it is. I know that if there is ever a global event where people are being murdered in droves every European, Aussie, and Asian has a deep seated belief that America will step in, get politically involved, send a relief mission, blow it out of proportion in the news, or in some way, “Handle it”. Does this mean we are simply playing our role and fulfilling expectations? I would not play the victim and try to convince you that America is simply serving an existence of obligation, but to some degree, that pressure is there. Blame it on our GDP, blame it on our media making mountains out of mole hills, blame it on a general desire for European countries to negotiate in the absence of action (Rwanda, SHAPE, there are more examples). The discussion really is a lot bigger than one’s friend the sniper or someone who was in the sandbox for a few months. Where we are goes back to the very founding of this country, what we stand for, what we showed the world was possible, and to some degree, the jealousy of those who weren’t strong enough to follow.

    France helped us gain our independence. We, in turn helped them with theirs immediately following our war of independence. Together, we formed the North Atlantic Alliance and saw freedom come to every Western country. America didn’t start imperialism, we have always fought against it. Least you forget who backed Gandhi with removing the British commonwealth from India then from Africa. America has stated publicly and privately that if you are an oppressed people or under an abusive dictatorship, we will help you any way we can. From Reagan supplying weapons in the overthrow efforts of central and south American countries to breaking up the USSR, we have brought freedom and democracy to anyone who has asked for it. We have stopped the cleansing of ethnic Albanians and the Jewish population of Germany. Iraq and Afghanistan is natural progression. If you have ever been there, you would have a hard time convincing me that women are treated fairly or that there isn’t a class system in place that is beyond tolerance. The list of crimes against humanity that those two countries have racked up over the years is staggering: embassy bombings, gassing tunnels in the subway, bombs in city centers around the world, and some of the worst male fashion I have ever seen. It was simply a matter of time and least we forget, they gave us a reason.

    Those of you who don’t understand the struggle of good against evil, start your reading with Socrates and don’t skip a beat all the way up to modern game theory. Include The Prince, Carl Marx, Lock, Rousseau, and try to wrap your head around what it means to be a free person, a citizen, and having only a limited time on this planet to enjoy it all. Everyone deserves a chance to be anything, do anything, and live without fear. If war is what is needed to bring these gifts to everyone on the planet, then brace yourself because there is a whole lot of it coming. Once we are done in the Middle East we will turn our sights to Africa. No more will mother’s be killed if their kids won’t work in the diamond mines or smuggle heroin. Their day is coming soon. We believe so much in inalienable human rights that it is the first 10 laws in our constitution. Try expressing your “freedom of speech” in Tienanmen Square or your “Right to assemble” in North Korea. Feel free to exercise your right of due process in Congo or Sudan. I think history has shown that those are all bad moves but you can badmouth the president in Washington D.C. You can have a hate rally, express your Satanical beliefs downtown, even assemble in the name of not wanting to pay taxes right outside the Federal Reserve Bank. All this is the wonder that war, bravery, and moral men have brought. Would you rather North Korea be in charge? How about Burma or Columbia, maybe Cuba?

    I know that oil is a big reason why we are in the Middle East. I know that Iraq took a shot at Bush Sr. and W. wanted to give them a little “What for”. I know that bocking up the shipping lines in the Middle East in a “War Effort” greatly impacted our largest competing economy. Do you believe that these are more important reasons that keeping a single woman from being stoned to death? Are these more important to you than stopping an oppressive government from black bagging a father or a brother in the middle of the night? We are there because it is what needed to be done and it was the time to do it. While you may be the person who watches someone get the piss beat out of them instead of jumping in the fray just to later talk a lot of trash about how you would have done something differently or that the person who was getting beat deserved it, however keep in mind: Americans jump in. To allow an injustice to continue is to condone it.

    To close this in true cowboy way: while the rest of the world is playing footie, enjoying wine and cheese, debating weather it is a good financial move to go to war, or simply acting like they are above the fray, America jumped in. Whether or not it was the right move, we took action while the rest of the world was staring at their shoes. Was it a surprise? Were you shocked that America jumped in? No? Well then you must have had an expectation that we were going to. Does the fact that it didn’t surprise you and that you had an expectation that this would be the course of action, and you did nothing, does it not tie you to the action? It does. You are also responsible because in a democracy, everyone who has a voice is heard, even “Joe the Plumber”. While you piss down your leg, we throw punches. A good plan executed now is better than the perfect plan later. I know we are flawed but I believe that we are doing this for the constant struggle of human rights and humane treatment of all people. We may not have the best methods but at least we have methods. Inaction in the face of violent oppression carries as much blame as committing the crime itself. As we stomp the remaining drug lords, warlords, backwards dictators, and ethnic cleansing blame artists off the face of the planet it will further polarize the people who are convinced that we can handle this with political debate. Woodrow Wilson tried that. These people only know the sword so it is the sword we will give them. I am not asking anyone to pick a side. Feel free to hide across the playground while we go beat up the bully. You can call us the bully if you want but it is because we removed the threat that you can even have the balls to say that. If we were truly as violent as you make us out to be, would we allow you to say such things? Try saying something anti-government in Gorky Park or thumb your nose are the Carabineri. Would you get away with your skin? Would you rather have those people in charge? No, it seems to me that you are quite comfortable with the current arrangement of you complaining about how we do things and not understanding that it is because we do things that you can even have the forum to complain.

    Best-

  17. Mike E said

    Casey writes:

    “Try saying something anti-government in Gorky Park or thumb your nose are the Carabineri. Would you get away with your skin? Would you rather have those people in charge?

    are you under the impression that people don’t say anti-government things in Russia (Gorky Park) or Italy (carabinieri)?

    Much pro-government patriotism in the U.S. is rooted in a real ignorance of the world.

    Imagine a moral or political superiority of the U.S. — and then (on that basis) invent a justification for its military domination.

  18. Casey said

    Are you under the impression that the Russian police don’t blackjack first and ask questions later? C’mon, don’t kid yourself. Sure, if there are cameras around, they will tolerate it but it is nothing like what we have. About the Carabinieri: take one of those Mediterranean cruises that stops in Naples, go downtown, find a cop that has the brass image of a bomb exploding on his hat, and give him the bird. I promise you that you will not be making that cruise ship departure. You haven’t danced until you lock arms with a Caribineri.

    Also, I am definitely NOT pro-government. When I say “We” I do not mean the government. We are all free men protected under the constitution in this country. The single most powerful office in this country is the informed citizen. Can you say that about anywhere else? I am not an imminent domain’r nor do I believe that a government even has the ability to be moral or immoral. It is made up of people. To associate human-like qualities to an entity is to hide behind generalizations and divert responsibility.

    So to answer your questions:
    1. Yes, people say anti-government things in Gorky Park and they pay for it in spades. Give it a shot sometime, maybe you’ll have a moment of clarity as you are lying knocked out on the ground. Same goes for the Caribineri. They mean business and don’t take fuss, especially not from outsiders. Our tolerance is unmatched in this area. Even the British police will take you downtown if you get a little rambunctious. We let illegal immigrants and drug dealers continue until we have evidence that they broke a law! Imagine THAT going on in Indonesia! Due process protects even the worst of our examples. You know, in the frontier days, it was death to anyone who opposed the fragile sovereignty. I bet you would really complain if we still instituted the Mayflower Compact laws. America is a country of laws. If you feel they are unfair or restrictive, there is a process to change them. There isn’t enough disk space on this server to explain all the incredible freedoms the framers gave us on the backs of our soldiers. Just understand that while there may be an Apple outlet and a Pizza Hut in Delhi, they are in no way like us. Neither is anywhere else. Take an American history course from a conservative university to understand more.

    2. I am not glorifying the government. There should definitely be a lot less of it. We as a people vote with our feet and our wallets. Some have their own agendas in our government and for that I hope that they will face the music but in most cases, the representatives speak as best they can for their constituents. Hold that model up anywhere but Switzerland and compare how well anyone else follows that rule. I lived in Germany for a number of years, England, Italy, and other places not-so-nice and had an opportunity to talk politics with the citizens of each country. The first thing that blows me away is that there is no information outlet for them to even know what their government is doing, let alone have a say in it. It also amazes me the complete lack of investment knowledge Europeans have outside of Bankfurt. My neighbor was a professional architect and had no idea what the stock market even was! He was in his 40s! They complain but they don’t educate nor take action for themselves. They lean into the security that their country will take care of them in retirement while badmouthing it. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

    3. No one is claiming moral or political superiority. You are picking a fight here. Maybe you should read the definition of politics (It isn’t anything more than the simple dynamic of two people interacting… like us here on this forum) before forming a buzzword. This sounds more like an accusation from someone who has been offended, and not a well informed opinion. I mean, does the moral high ground equal a profit? Then why would America even care about being moral? Isn’t every city in the world incorporated? Every state? Every country? THey all have Class C paperwork on file and have to show budgets and balance sheets. Isn’t the goal of a company to make money? It is very misinformed to think that company decisions are made on a moral basis. Business is a balance of profit and repercussion. The citizens of the country carry the moral yoke. We vote on ordinances that would send us to war. The individual sits at home at night with their families and discusses what is being proposed. Then they call their elected official and cast their vote. At least that is what I hope the rest of American families are doing. It is all of our responsibility to ensure that our governance stays inline with moral and ethical behavior. Waving your finger at them is waiving your finger at me. One of the most difficult things to do is find something good to say about someone who has offended you. I believe that you are seeing red and no matter what level of rhetoric I present, you are not willing to consider it. Are you referring to the singular decisions of a recent president? Are you saying that the disproportionate rates at which women are burned in India for reasons as simple as looking at another man in a funny way not inhumane? As an individual, I don’t want women burned no matter what country. I vote we stop it at all costs. See, that was an individual making a moral decision. I feel that you are trying to paint a picture that America’s government has a morality.

    No non-living thing and for that matter, no living thing without a complex brain even has a sense of morality. Some cultures attribute morality to having a fear that a higher power will smite you if you don’t do that right thing. Does our government go to church? C’mon, it is people who vote and make these decisions, not some Wizard of Oz like visage that thunders proclamations across the land. Political superiority? Are you claiming that our people can negotiate better than the people of another country? Politics is the study of interaction between two people. Sure, the elected officials word-smith the hell out of everything they say and they have writers for speeches but that is no reason to claim superiority over another person. I think you are projecting quite a bit of internal problems you have with the world onto a faceless entity because it is safe and won’t put you in your place. Why don’t you concentrate on opinions you have about me as an American, as a free man, as a non-religious (but very moral) person, as an ex-soldier, as a father, as an employee in this wonderful capitalist economy, as a voting citizen who is involved in his local, city, state, and country government. Fire at me. I am a face and a voice that is willing to talk it out. You enjoy debate over action, right? Let’s debate. I find you to hide behind larger ideas so no one will see the cowering weakling behind your words. I find that you don’t know what morality is nor the definition of other words you use, rather listen to your friends and colleagues speak and regurgitate what they said with your own intellectual-like spin on it. I find you to be lazy and take the opinions of others without your own due diligence. If you want to name call and accuse (You implied that I am a lier with your first question) then lets debate! If you don’t, we can always step outside and I will stomp the ignorant brains out of your fussy little head.

    I read your comments about the church punishing the nun and not the priests. While I agree with you emotionally, I also understand that the church is a business and the priests are the investments. Nuns may be more replaceable than priests and in an effort to show the public that they are willing to be hard, they burnt the wrong one. There are always more elements at work than are reported. The story seemed leaning a bit as well. You ended with “Any questions”, sure I’ll throw out a softball: “Do you know all the facts?” I don’t. I would love to hear someone explain an event who actually has all the facts.

    I also read your comments on the oil spill. This clears a lot up for me. You are a Builderburg/Bohemian Club chaser. You are a conspiracy fanatic disguised as an intellectual. I was in your shoes for a long time. Honestly, I don’t know if people are so organized that there is a master plan controlling everything. A university in the Netherlands spent a great amount of time and effort identifying all the links between the CIA, Kraft, the motor companies, the bankers, etc… and published a handful of .pdf charts on the web showing all the lines of influence. I also understand that there is a ruling class of people who make far more than Bill Gates. What does this change? Does knowing the food/drug goals, the goals of big oil, or the goals of big pharm give you enough power to change them or just yell mindlessly at a wall? Your friends don’t have the time nor the interest to do that kind of research. They are perfectly fine in the “Fat, Dumb, and Happy” category and figure “Why shake the boat”. So, not only are you isolated in your opinions (correct as they may be) you have no support and no backup. Think of your social circles, if Builderburg decided to blackbag you tonight, how loud could your friends or family scream? More than 1 degree of separation? More than 5 people actually caring enough to say or do something? I would say that you are living dangerously if you don’t have more insurance.

    What I am saying: Your core belief that America tromps all over the world waving a flag of moral superiority (No matter how correct or incorrect it may be) is half true. We the people of the USA not only recognize immoral behavior but we have the nuts to take action. Anyone in the world knows immoral behavior when they see it. It is like a bar fight. What you do defines you. Is executing ten people to be buried in a nameless grave covered in Lyme a moral thing to do? Would you go find the people who did it and bring them to justice? Do you think debating it gets them sentenced faster or slower than just grabbing them? Americans can not sit by and watch as our brothers and sisters around the world are abused. We donate more to feed the hungry than all the rest of the countries in the world combined. Each year the UK consensus department puts out a book of figures. You can buy it at any airport. It paints a picture of what is philanthropy and what is BS in the world. Check it out. Americans believe we are moral. We believe everyone should have a bill of rights. We do this for the man or woman that is being oppressed, not for financial gain. What our unsavory citizens, be them in government or Wall Street do, they will have to sleep with it at night. Does any individual citizen speak for everyone? People are people! There are a-holes in every walk of life, faith, and color. Their actions make the papers but there are far more good people doing what’s right than the handful of sensational, front-page-worthy a-holes. We have also shown that white collar crime will be punished with multiple back-to-back life sentences. Does that happen in Cuba? Chile? Egypt? Greece? Russia? Need I go on?

    I welcome you to fire off any more thoughts you may have. In fact, most of the name-calling I did was to call you out. My wife says that people don’t argue with me because I devastate people with common sense and that most people are emotional and feel a need to respond to stimuli regardless of credibility or knowledge. I am hoping that I bumped into a thinker and not just someone who responds.

    “Any questions?”

  19. Steve from Canada said

    What a load.
    The people of the Congo asked for your help. Denied.
    The people of Darfur asked for your help. Denied.
    The people of Rwanda asked for your help. Denied.
    The shadow wars in Central America.
    The shadow wars in South East Asia.
    The shadow wars in the Middle East.
    The invading of a sovereign country that held no quarrel with you at all.
    Diego Garcia. The decimation of an entire population so your country can launch strikes easier.
    The clandestine prison system.
    Waterboarding.
    If ANY other country attempted this kind of global horse shit, America would be screaming at the top of it’s lungs yelling “Empire, Domino Effect, National Security! It must be stopped!”.
    But, when it’s you guys, it’s somehow okay.
    According to whom?
    I wont even start with your little buddies Israel and how you support them with money that SHOULD be spent on your own countrymen coming home after fighting for the next great empire.
    Buddy, you’re full of shit and down a quart.

  20. Peter said

    Why is it that if you say something anti-US, then they, the Americans, assume that you are from America and unpatriotic?

    Why are the Americans also under the illusion that people should like them, when they are one of the most unpopular countries on earth?

    And why should we like them in the first place?

    Why do they also think that when they invade and occupy other countries like there are no tommorow that people won’t be angry about it?

    Finally, when they invade other countries, it is not to promote freedom, which is a matter of perspctive, but rather to further the interests of their government. Nothing more and nothing less.

    PS: I’m not from the US; so don’t call me unpatriotic, and don’t give me a long patriotic speech, because I’m not obliged to support the US.

  21. Your Freedom said

    I only read about 10-12 posts on here. I am also an American Military Member who has been away from home 18 months over the last 3 years and preparing to leave for another 12 months away from MY loved ones. All of this is so that you ALL can post anti military propaganda FREELY….

    By the way, It is Diego Garcia I am headed to.

    I cannot be angry with you due to your ignorance with the US Military, I will continue to do what I do for your freedoms anyway. But I do challenge you to come do what I do anytime you would like.

    THE FINAL INSPECTION
    The Soldier stood and faced God, Which must always come to pass.
    He hoped his shoes were shining, Just as brightly as his brass..
    ‘Step forward now,Soldier , How shall I deal with you?
    Have you always turned the other cheek? To My Church have you been true?’
    The soldier squared his shoulders and said, ‘No, Lord, I guess I ain’t.
    Because those of us who carry guns, Can’t always be a saint.
    I’ve had to work most Sundays, And at times my talk was tough.
    And sometimes I’ve been violent, Because the world is awfully rough.
    But, I never took a penny, That wasn’t mine to keep…
    Though I worked a lot of overtime, When the bills got just too steep.
    And I never passed a cry for help, Though at times I shook with fear..
    And sometimes, God, forgive me, I’ve wept unmanly tears.
    I know I don’t deserve a place, Among the people here.
    They never wanted me around, Except to calm their fears
    If you’ve a place for me here, Lord, It needn’t be so grand.
    I never expected or had too much, But if you don’t, I’ll understand.
    There was a silence all around the throne, Where the saints had often trod.
    As the Soldier waited quietly, For the judgment of his God.
    ‘Step forward now, you Soldier, You’ve borne your burdens well.
    Walk peacefully on Heaven’s streets, You’ve done your time in Hell.’
    Author Unknown

    May God have mercy on YOUR soul, I know he will on mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sincerely,
    Your Freedom

    (Please don’t reply to this as I don’t care what negativity you have to say as long as you have the freedoms to say it)

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